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	<title>Comments on: Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites? -and Treatment tennis elbow</title>
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	<description>Pain Management Discussion Forum;   email -admin@painmuse.org; WOMEN WITH FIBROMYALGIA -PLEASE HELP WITH SURVEY</description>
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		<title>By: Pain Medical Musing &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Prolotherapy to Mid Tendon Achilles Tendonopathy - Only Mildly Better Results When Compared to Eccentric Loading Exercises - How Could That Be Better?</title>
		<link>http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-29736</link>
		<dc:creator>Pain Medical Musing &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Prolotherapy to Mid Tendon Achilles Tendonopathy - Only Mildly Better Results When Compared to Eccentric Loading Exercises - How Could That Be Better?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 00:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-29736</guid>
		<description>[...] Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites? -and Treatment tennis elbowIt has been now demonstrated that arthritis has a neurogenic component and blocking the nerves gives some lasting relief. I suspect tendonitis is the same and the nerves in the area need attention. What are options? All articles read dismiss phenol as being too toxic. However, the sclerosant used in some tendonopathy studies is polidocanol - this article dismissed it because it required ultrasound use- I have used Ultrasound on a tennis elbow case and found you couldn&#8217;t miss the blood vessesl - they immediately blanched on injection without even trying. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites? -and Treatment tennis elbowIt has been now demonstrated that arthritis has a neurogenic component and blocking the nerves gives some lasting relief. I suspect tendonitis is the same and the nerves in the area need attention. What are options? All articles read dismiss phenol as being too toxic. However, the sclerosant used in some tendonopathy studies is polidocanol &#8211; this article dismissed it because it required ultrasound use- I have used Ultrasound on a tennis elbow case and found you couldn&#8217;t miss the blood vessesl &#8211; they immediately blanched on injection without even trying. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sho</title>
		<link>http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-27097</link>
		<dc:creator>Sho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-27097</guid>
		<description>I also have websites &amp; blogs so I know what I am talking about when I say your site is top-notch! Keep up the great work, you are providing a great resource on the Internet here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also have websites &amp; blogs so I know what I am talking about when I say your site is top-notch! Keep up the great work, you are providing a great resource on the Internet here!</p>
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		<title>By: Pain Medical Musing &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Resistant Shoulder Tendonitis Treatments</title>
		<link>http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-14579</link>
		<dc:creator>Pain Medical Musing &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Resistant Shoulder Tendonitis Treatments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-14579</guid>
		<description>[...] I must admit, I have only used prolotherapy on unstable shoulders - this would be a new option. 9) Another Prolotherapy style Sclerotherapy targets the neurovascular painful &#8220;fuzz&#8221; that grows around injured tendons. this was a topic of discussion of another blog note here Sclerosing polidocanol injections to treat chronic painful shoulder impingement syndrome-results of a two-centre collaborative pilot study Knee Surgery, Sports Traumatology, Arthroscopy Volume 14, Number 12 / December, 2006, 1321-1326 Håkan Alfredson , Herlof Harstad, Simen Haugen and Lars Öhberg abstract here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I must admit, I have only used prolotherapy on unstable shoulders &#8211; this would be a new option. 9) Another Prolotherapy style Sclerotherapy targets the neurovascular painful &#8220;fuzz&#8221; that grows around injured tendons. this was a topic of discussion of another blog note here Sclerosing polidocanol injections to treat chronic painful shoulder impingement syndrome-results of a two-centre collaborative pilot study Knee Surgery, Sports Traumatology, Arthroscopy Volume 14, Number 12 / December, 2006, 1321-1326 Håkan Alfredson , Herlof Harstad, Simen Haugen and Lars Öhberg abstract here [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-1624</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 05:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-1624</guid>
		<description>Update on Neurovascular Lesion on tendons:
Knee Surg Sports Traumatol Arthrosc. 2008 Apr 17 [Epub ahead of print]

Marked sympathetic component in the perivascular innervation of the dorsal
paratendinous tissue of the patellar tendon in arthroscopically treated
tendinosis patients.

Danielson P, Andersson G, Alfredson H, Forsgren S.

The nerve component of this neurovascular pain fuzz is of Sympathetic nervous system origin - ie. This is the part of the nervous system activated in Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS aka RSD). Involvement of this part of the nervous system creates extreme allodynia (pain) and so it is not surprizing these areas are persistenatly painful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update on Neurovascular Lesion on tendons:<br />
Knee Surg Sports Traumatol Arthrosc. 2008 Apr 17 [Epub ahead of print]</p>
<p>Marked sympathetic component in the perivascular innervation of the dorsal<br />
paratendinous tissue of the patellar tendon in arthroscopically treated<br />
tendinosis patients.</p>
<p>Danielson P, Andersson G, Alfredson H, Forsgren S.</p>
<p>The nerve component of this neurovascular pain fuzz is of Sympathetic nervous system origin &#8211; ie. This is the part of the nervous system activated in Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS aka RSD). Involvement of this part of the nervous system creates extreme allodynia (pain) and so it is not surprizing these areas are persistenatly painful.</p>
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		<title>By: Personal Loans</title>
		<link>http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-1148</link>
		<dc:creator>Personal Loans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-1148</guid>
		<description>Notable view point in respect to Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites?. Your write ups is the reason I always drop by your blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Notable view point in respect to Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites?. Your write ups is the reason I always drop by your blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Bulletin News</title>
		<link>http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-1146</link>
		<dc:creator>Bulletin News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-1146</guid>
		<description>Nice blog post discussing Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites?! I love this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice blog post discussing Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites?! I love this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Sciatica Back Pain</title>
		<link>http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-1110</link>
		<dc:creator>Sciatica Back Pain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-1110</guid>
		<description>I found your blog via Google while searching for sciatica back pain and your post regarding Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites? looks very interesting to me.I just just wanted to drop you a note telling you how impressed I was with the information you have posted here. I also have websites &amp; blogs  so I know what I am talking about when I say your site is top-notch! Keep up the great work, you are providing a great resource on the Internet here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your blog via Google while searching for sciatica back pain and your post regarding Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites? looks very interesting to me.I just just wanted to drop you a note telling you how impressed I was with the information you have posted here. I also have websites &amp; blogs  so I know what I am talking about when I say your site is top-notch! Keep up the great work, you are providing a great resource on the Internet here!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kay</title>
		<link>http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-774</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-774</guid>
		<description>I found your blog via Google while searching for Treatment For Chronic Low Back Pain and your post regarding Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites? looks very interesting to me. I could not believe the amount of quality material on this site.  The site is extremely eyecatching and pulls the reader straight it, the articles are great quality and are very professionally written. I have seen too many of these sites where it looks like they pay an 8 year old to do the writing - Not this one. Your site is easily the best that I have seen in a long while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your blog via Google while searching for Treatment For Chronic Low Back Pain and your post regarding Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites? looks very interesting to me. I could not believe the amount of quality material on this site.  The site is extremely eyecatching and pulls the reader straight it, the articles are great quality and are very professionally written. I have seen too many of these sites where it looks like they pay an 8 year old to do the writing &#8211; Not this one. Your site is easily the best that I have seen in a long while.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-679</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 20:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-679</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your feedback.

Disc Rim Lesions
It seems to me, neurovascular growth seems to be the key to discogenic pain as well. With disc damage, tears that occur in the annulus (outer rim). This outer rim can become inflamed because the disc center is actually foreign to the body and if it leaks out to the edge a brisk inflammatory reaction can ensue. If this rim faces the spine cord side, chronic back pain develops, much like a chronic tennis elbow. There is intense neurovascular growth there too - called a rim lesion. If the tear/ rim lesion faces one side near the spinal cord, then you can have typical sciatica (even reflex, strength and EMG changes) without any disc bulging/protrusion. This has now been dubbed &quot;Chemical Radiculitis&quot; and I feel occurs very often. This area of cracked rim can be seen one MRI but lots of people have this &quot;Hyperintense Zone&quot; without the accompaning inflammation so again MRI&#039;s are more or less useless.

My 1/2 Red Neck Patient:

I had a patient with considerable pain unilaterally in the subcutaneous (skin fatty tissue) tissues of the neck. Picking up the tissues between my fingers was very tender. The most tender spots were areas the superficial dorsal nerves of the neck penetrated - upper cervical near midline at top and C3 somewhat lower 1-2 cm from middle.  When I ran the same ultrasound imager the tennis elbow imaging study used, the blood vessels showed the same sort of pattern! Using a dumbed down sclerosant (concentrated dextrose) into these superficial tissues cleared those vessels on imaging, like in the tennis elbow study,  and later afforded some relief. This skin relief was blunted by the fact he has significant other neck issues not so skin deep. What was interesting, was the red neck was unilateral on the side of his problems, so the thought of these neurovascular growths will always remind me of this red neck syndrome...

Micro nerve entrapments
Some of the pain in the red neck skin version represents in my mind, nerve microentrapments. I believe they are common contributor to low back pain in the form of cluneal nerve entrapments often seen above the iliac crest. Injecting them will help the pain for a while and can drop back pain by 2/10 for several weeks; but does not deal with the central issue that causes this neurogenic inflammation process. I find doing that helpful in post-laminectomy cases where the spinal sensitization and scar are things that are not fixed easily.

This is getting to be a hot topic as
- discs are being fried (IDET) and more recently injected with methylene blue in attempt to disable this rim lesion.
- Some skin microentrapments (trapezius tip, supraorbital) are now being surgically released - a group in Nebraska with Dr. Nystrom

- It is now clear why bulging disc and rim lesions are NOT accurate estimation of pain - they need to be inflammed. I have one lady with numbness mid fingers hand with a very postive Spurling sign  - pressing on sidebend neck increases numbness = 92 - 100% accurate re radiculitis in neck. She has NO pain - so the disc can press but it takes the inflammation to make it hurt. She&#039;s Irish - makes me wonder if some of the increased pain tolerance in Irish is due to lack of inflammatory response...

There is lots to talk about here - any discussion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your feedback.</p>
<p>Disc Rim Lesions<br />
It seems to me, neurovascular growth seems to be the key to discogenic pain as well. With disc damage, tears that occur in the annulus (outer rim). This outer rim can become inflamed because the disc center is actually foreign to the body and if it leaks out to the edge a brisk inflammatory reaction can ensue. If this rim faces the spine cord side, chronic back pain develops, much like a chronic tennis elbow. There is intense neurovascular growth there too &#8211; called a rim lesion. If the tear/ rim lesion faces one side near the spinal cord, then you can have typical sciatica (even reflex, strength and EMG changes) without any disc bulging/protrusion. This has now been dubbed &#8220;Chemical Radiculitis&#8221; and I feel occurs very often. This area of cracked rim can be seen one MRI but lots of people have this &#8220;Hyperintense Zone&#8221; without the accompaning inflammation so again MRI&#8217;s are more or less useless.</p>
<p>My 1/2 Red Neck Patient:</p>
<p>I had a patient with considerable pain unilaterally in the subcutaneous (skin fatty tissue) tissues of the neck. Picking up the tissues between my fingers was very tender. The most tender spots were areas the superficial dorsal nerves of the neck penetrated &#8211; upper cervical near midline at top and C3 somewhat lower 1-2 cm from middle.  When I ran the same ultrasound imager the tennis elbow imaging study used, the blood vessels showed the same sort of pattern! Using a dumbed down sclerosant (concentrated dextrose) into these superficial tissues cleared those vessels on imaging, like in the tennis elbow study,  and later afforded some relief. This skin relief was blunted by the fact he has significant other neck issues not so skin deep. What was interesting, was the red neck was unilateral on the side of his problems, so the thought of these neurovascular growths will always remind me of this red neck syndrome&#8230;</p>
<p>Micro nerve entrapments<br />
Some of the pain in the red neck skin version represents in my mind, nerve microentrapments. I believe they are common contributor to low back pain in the form of cluneal nerve entrapments often seen above the iliac crest. Injecting them will help the pain for a while and can drop back pain by 2/10 for several weeks; but does not deal with the central issue that causes this neurogenic inflammation process. I find doing that helpful in post-laminectomy cases where the spinal sensitization and scar are things that are not fixed easily.</p>
<p>This is getting to be a hot topic as<br />
- discs are being fried (IDET) and more recently injected with methylene blue in attempt to disable this rim lesion.<br />
- Some skin microentrapments (trapezius tip, supraorbital) are now being surgically released &#8211; a group in Nebraska with Dr. Nystrom</p>
<p>- It is now clear why bulging disc and rim lesions are NOT accurate estimation of pain &#8211; they need to be inflammed. I have one lady with numbness mid fingers hand with a very postive Spurling sign  &#8211; pressing on sidebend neck increases numbness = 92 &#8211; 100% accurate re radiculitis in neck. She has NO pain &#8211; so the disc can press but it takes the inflammation to make it hurt. She&#8217;s Irish &#8211; makes me wonder if some of the increased pain tolerance in Irish is due to lack of inflammatory response&#8230;</p>
<p>There is lots to talk about here &#8211; any discussion?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kay</title>
		<link>http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-677</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 15:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://painmuse.org/?p=22#comment-677</guid>
		<description>I found your blog via Google while searching for Back Neck Pain Pain and your post regarding Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites? looks very interesting to me. I always enjoy coming to this site because you offer great tips and advice for people like me who can always use a few good pointers. I will be getting my friends to pop around fairly soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your blog via Google while searching for Back Neck Pain Pain and your post regarding Does Pain “Grow” at Tendon injury sites? looks very interesting to me. I always enjoy coming to this site because you offer great tips and advice for people like me who can always use a few good pointers. I will be getting my friends to pop around fairly soon.</p>
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